Traffic in Canada

My real name is Juan J. Fernandez. Location Mississauga. GO 720. No mistery about that , lol lol lol. I beleive I have already explained in this forums how to see the traffic info for any US City so far and only Road conditions for Canada, probably only Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa.

For that I either use my 720 and the cellphone data conn or better yet because is free the HOME/Dock combination. Now, always tomtom will only download trafic info relevant to your current location therefore when using my cellphone data conn I can only see traffic for Buffalo and Rochester and if any Road Conditions in the GTA (now it shows red triangles with snow flakes). IT ALL STARTED TO WORK AFTER I DID THE FREE WITHIN 30 DAYS MAP UPGRADE TO VERSION 720.1485. before the traffic data conn worked but it did not show anything. To see anything for US cities you have to use the Operate my Tomtom function of the HOME softw. then click on Set my location and select any Major US city. Update traffic and you do not even have to plan a route , simply go to traffic menu and select browse map . you will see lots of tiny red circles , click one of them and it will start showing more info for every traffic event . I REPEAT APPARENTLY YOU NEED TO HAVE THE LATEST 720.1485 MAPS OTHERWISE I CAN NOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU GUYS KEEP ASKING ME HOW TO DO IT.

Today using my Garmin c550/GTM 20 combination and IT WAS RAINING the green light meaning it was locked to the RDS subcarrier kept on along hwy 401 past Kennedy but I could see that it stopped receiving messages and lost sync several times. after a few miles driving it started to increase the message count once again with a few errors. As expected FM signal will degrade under certain non favorable weather conditions. I guess this afternoon was the case. Or it could be a signal shadow area that I have not notice before when driving along that stretch of highway.

Is any forum member using this tomtom rds-tmc receiver in the Montreal area? It should not work due to low signal levels within the montreal island (FM transmiter too far away in Mt Mansfield Vermont , US). You have to travel closer to the US border to get a signal . Pls post any results in Montreal to compare. Thanks in advance.
 
I have just found this very interesting and comprehensive website for the First Australian TMC provider (SUNA). www.sunatraffic.com.au . It is probably one of the most detailled websites about TMC Services. It also goes to mention that tipically it will take from 5 to 10 min since the traffic jam (Slow Traffic) is detected by them until it gets to our GPS units. It also explains how the TMC system works. Apparently the Aussies will enjoy the most advance and detailled TMC Service in the world so far , because they are using the Traffic Light's Traffic Sensors Network to add this Flow Info for also Major Roads within the Cities. The rest of the world mostly gets only Flow Info for Highways and Inter Cities freeways. Service only started last August and only in Melbourne so far. Aproximate cost depending on the GPS manufacturer , around $60 per year.

But unlike us Canadians , Intellimatics Australia (owns the SUNA TMC service) got an agreement with the AUS Goverment for funding of 1.2 Mill AUD to develope a new national Location Table , therefore they are expecting to grow the service to more than 75% of the population within a year (Sidney and Perth are in testing and calibration phase now). We will have to wait for the goodwill of Clear Channel's TTN to improve and extend service to other cities and so far at least in Montreal only the far away cows grazing close to Vermont broder have been receiving this traffic info since launch last July.
 
Derek and Afeudale have you guys got your new RDS-TMC traffic receiver? If so, How is the coverage compared with any previous one that you guys have used? Does it work farther away from Downtown Toronto now?

By the way an accident on the 407E this evening after 30 min and being reported 4 times by 680News still was not received my my Traffic receiver. Oh! Clear Channel's TTN how come you guys missed this one?
 
By the way I almost forgot, TomTom announced today this new traffic service: they call it HD traffic. check TomTom UK website for more info.

Nov 12 2007

WORLD PREMIERE


TomTom’s High Definition Traffic Sets New Standard in Traffic Information

~ First Live Deployment of the World’s Most Advanced Traffic Information Service in the Netherlands ~
~ Successful partnership with mobile network operator Vodafone ~

Amsterdam, 12 November 2007 - TomTom, the world’s largest navigation solutions provider, today announces the availability of its new premium traffic service TomTom High Definition Traffic (HD Traffic) in the Netherlands.

The breakthrough, patented TomTom HD Traffic technology uses raw, anonymous GSM signaling data made available through the partnership between TomTom and Vodafone. This data is merged with existing traffic sources to deliver the world’s most advanced traffic data.

This unique new way of supplying customers with accurate and precise traffic information, using anonymous, aggregated mobile phone data, sets a new industry standard and revolutionises the way drivers plan their daily journeys. Users receive up to five times more traffic updates so they are better informed about the traffic situation on their route and receive more accurate travel and arrival times. In addition, HD Traffic covers at least ten times more roads in the Netherlands, so drivers know in advance that the alternative route they take is actually a smarter option, thus avoiding any unnecessary delays.

TomTom has entered into a partnership with mobile network operator Vodafone in The Netherlands and in the United Kingdom for the supply of the anonymous GSM signaling data. Vodafone’s international footprint, strong brand, innovative power and the best mobile network in the industry makes it a true and reliable partner for TomTom and its users.

TomTom’s High Definition Traffic service will be available for the first time with the new TomTom ONE XL HD Traffic – in stores in The Netherlands mid November 2007 (see also separate TomTom ONE XL HD Traffic press release). TomTom expects to launch High Definition Traffic in the United Kingdom in the first half of 2008.
 
I see, so is traffic always been that way? I mean, it doesn't show congestion on major roads such as Dufferin St or Finch Ave? I live close around that area and at rush hour it is bumper to bumper traffic.
 
RDS-TMC is not limited to highways only , at least not technically. It is limited to the roads listed in the location table (in our GTA case LTN 9 of the NA location table table). The RDS-TMC has a slot of 16 bits to deliver this location code , therefore there are 2 power 16 (IDK how to say this in english, 2^16) possible codes , a total of 65536 possible codes. That is what they can do technically. But in real life, for now, most of the events being reported in the GTA are Slow Traffic events for 400 Series Highways. Today by the way there was a Slow Traffic event reported on LakeShore Rd in Downtown. In case of incidents events, like Accidents or Contruction , Objects on the road and Spills I saw one reported the other day Not on a Highway, very far away from Downtown. I do not remember the road though. Those are exceptions, not the rule, and depending on the severity and impact on traffic they will get reported for major roads like Hurontario or Eglinton for instance. In other words do not expect to get Slow Traffic reports (flow info) for this major avenues and not even small accidents that do not impact heavily traffic.

Derek and Afeudale my curiosity for your RDS-TMC Receiver is to compare coverage of both main stream receivers (Garmin and Tomtom) because they use the same FM station and therefore the same traffic data provider. If you guys are willing I would also like to compare the DELAY TIMES estimated by Both units (my Garmin and your Tomtoms) because RDS-TMC DOES NOT BROADCAST THIS INFO , therefore the GPS Firmware has to calculate/estimate this based on 4 bits broadcasted in the RDS-TMC bit secuence. 1 Bit indicates Direction of queue (+ or - , and has nothing to do with flow direction) and the remain 3 bits indicates the Extension (2^3= up to 8 but 0 represents only extends to the location of the event).

Lets explain how it works:

Lets say you want to report a queue of 2 km on 401 Express Eastbound due to an accident at 401/400 intersection. therefore 2 km backwards it will be Islington Ave interchange aproximately , AND IF THEY ARE ONLY LISTING IN THE LOCATION TABLES THE ENTRY/EXIT RAMPS TO HIGHWAYS FROM MAJOR ROADS then the Extension bits would be 010 therefore Extension=2. (Backwards 1 would be Weston RD and 2 would be Islington). They will have to broadcast the event code for this event Accident. and Also the Location code for the 401/400 interchange on the 401 Express Eastbound (here in Toronto it differentiates Collector from Express therefore they have a different codes for each).

So the receiver gets this in the RDS-TMC bit secuence. an 11 bit Event Code (there are 2048 Events listed in the Alert-C protocol) that belongs to Accident (IDK the actual code, for instance 102 is Stationary traffic 1 km). The 16-bit long Location code for the 401 Express Eastbound. In this type of event (Accident ) Direction is not important (there are provision for other types of events like natural disasters that affects in both directions + or - or only one especific direction). An accident here always stops traffic backwards. Therefore the next important info for the receiver is the 3 bits Extension (some people call it duration) , in this case 2 (010) therefore the GPS has to look up in the Location database the next 2 locations on 401E Express backwards and the result is Islington Ave.

There are also Status messages that could be broadcasted as well and therefore could potentially give extra info about an event like travel times but they are only implemented in the very new Alert-Plus protocol wich I Dont think we are using in NA. I beleive we only use Alert-C protocol. Maybe in Europe they already started to implement it.

This evening by the way the 410 Northbound from 401 to Derry was backed up BUT MY GARMIN WAS SHOWING THE OTHER DIRECTION , 410 SOUTHBOUND AS A 3 MIN DELAY COLOURED AS YELLOW. SLOW TRAFFIC EVENT from Derry to 401 with the event Icon on the 410S/RR-5(derry rd) intersection. 410s WAS MOVING FREELY . It could either be a transmition error (MORE LIKELY) , a TTN the traffic provider error , meaning they broadcasted the wrong location code or IT COULD BE A GARMIN FIRMWARE ERROR.

In only a week of RDS-TMC use with my Garmin here in Toronto I have seen 3, 4 , 5 , 8 and 15 minutes delays reported. the higher numbers being a combination of 2 events.

keep in mind that unlike TomTom Plus traffic, XM Navtraffic and MSN Direct , RDS-TMC does not have the bandwith to report delay times and that is why I would like to compare how this 2 GPS units estimate the Delay times (ETA's includes them) based on the Extension of the event and the Average Speed you usually drive along that particular highway.

Users in UK usually complains that using RDS-TMC, Delay times are not as accurate as when using the Tomtom PLUS traffic GPRS based delivery system and this is the reason.

Digital Flex , in my opinion, as a new technology it has to get better and so far at least in the GTA we are getting extra info reasonably fast and accurate that combined with the 680NEws traffic reports and the Gantry Signs and common sense will allow us to make better decisions than the other drivers.

AT least we are getting Flow reports!!! not only Incidents like the MAgellan Customers via the Navteq RDS service.
 
Just an update , we have been having several random service blackouts here in Toronto for just a few minutes since the end of last week. not big deal and today it worked all the time.

Have you guys noticed that 410 from Derry to 401 always seems to get the slow report with the direction wrong. I mean the jam is northbound but tonite was the second time I saw it reported 3 min delay on the southbound instead. And southbound was moving well!!!.
 
just got my TMC receiver today...wow, it took 2 weeks to get here!

Not so happy with it so far...its just as bad as with the Garmin Nuvi 660...probably the quality of the RDS information and nothing to do with the actual unit.

Today, I was travelling eastbound on the 401 from mississauga to north york at about 4:00pm and it said 0 delays on the route. All the way across there were no delays and I actually thought it knew what it was talking about! That is until I got to dufferin where it took 20 mins from dufferin to yonge st. but the unit still reported no delay!

I simulated some routes around town and only got 1 min delays...

I checked and have the latest TMC receiver and latest firmware....

Oh well...
 
In the case of the 401 , the traffic provider will diferentiate if it is the express or the collectors BUT UNFORTUNAELLY SO FAR I HAVE ONLY SEEN BEEN REPORTED ON ONE OF THEM NOT BOTH. Therefore the GPS will route you via the express with no delay if the jam is only reported on the collector and viceversa via the collector with no delay if the jam is reported on the express. Very annoying by the way!!!

UK users were reporting that firmware version 7.160 for GO 910 was showing all delay times as 1 minute only. But they fixed it with version 7.161. Now all tomtom units using RDS-TMC should report delay times other than 1 minute.

Still service blackouts persist but today 410 both directions S and N were showing correctly Slow traffic. I guess they fixed it.

By the way TTN website today updated their Canadian FAQ and now it states that they are broadcasting from South of the Montreal City therefore reception was limited. Lets hope they start braodcasting from Mt Royal at least in the near future.

Derek any news from your new receiver?. If not, How about the old one you are using? 1 minute delays only?. This delay times are only estimates calculated by the GPS firmware although even with "the old" Alert-C protocol that TTN uses (as well as most of TMC providers in the world if not all of them) the provider is technically able to broadcast delay times as an extra data. The question is Are they really doing it?. IDK yet but seems that it is the GPS manufacturer the one that has to estimate that so far. As per an email from TTN that I received yesterday.

Juan,



It’s alert-c. I believe the issue with the 1 minute delay is a Garmin unit software issue. They replicated and fixed it for the nuvi, so I’m thinking there may be an update for the c550. If not, then very soon.



Thanks…




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Juan J. Fernandez
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:04 PM
To: Speicher, Robert
Subject: Is TTN using Alert-C or Alert-Plus here in Toronto, Canada?



Hello:



I just would like to know if your traffic service here in Toronto, ON uses the Alert-C or the Alert-Plus protocol. Or at least if you could tell me if here in Toronto you are broadcasting Delay or Travel times. Most of the Slow Traffic events here in my c550 unit show as a 1 minute delay only, even if it is coloured as red.



Thanks,
 
I am using the new reciever but I am still only showing 1min delay times.

Very annoying since it really hasn't proved to reroute me in a better way

This evening was a prime example. I knew enough from experience to take my alternate "off highway" route home and in speaking with a friend who took the highway the whole way our times were much different.

I was faster.

I have the latest firmware loaded on my 720.... but in reading some other posts there may be flaws with this firmware and apparently tomtom has pulled it.

I can't figure out how to downgrade so till they do another update I may just have to wait for it to work correctly.


D.
 
Navigator 6 in Canada

I called TOMTOM 3 weeks ago to check if they have the traffic information covered for Toronto area, and the answer was YES, I asked them also if I use my Nokia N95 with external bluetooth GPS receiver with TT Navigator 6 , will this let me get the traffic info, the answer was yes again as far as I have a GPRS connection which I already have from my service provider (Rogers). After I order it and try it , it works fine as navigator, but no traffic information at all, I can see the traffic on the border cities in the states , but nothing for Toronto area, I called them again to check, now they come up with something new, they asked me to check with Rogers if the have a GPRS packets running in clear channels !!!! , anyone was able to run it in Canada on a smartphone and could get any traffic information

PLEASE HELP !:eek:
 
Derek and Afeudale If you guys do not mind asking, How about the coverage of the new RDS-TMC compared with the ones that you guys have used before? Does it get a signal farther away from downtown Toronto?.

I guess today was a perfect day to test how the traffic service was working. lots a problems every where. At least 50 events this morning , almost all accidents. Coming from south of QEW around Mississauga RD my Garmin was telling me to take the QEW eventhough there was a 4 min delay due to Accident , color red, from there all the way to Cawthra Rd (reported as RR-17 by Garmin , very annoying!!!, it usually report on the traffic event the RR number instead of the road name). Since I could see the traffic almost stopped I decided t ogo north on Mississauga and take Dundas St instead and it worked perfectly , no delays at all on those side roads. As I have said before , the RDS-TMC info becomes useful when yopu combine it with Gantry signs, AM radio and common sense and experience. you should no trust it blindly all the time.

Well lets hope the more users subscribe to the services in Toronto the better the service will get.
 
I have not noticed any change in range.

The unit almost looks identical to the old one..... starting to think that there is no difference.

A couple more days of using it should help.

I am convinced that it is the firmware I am using on my unit now that is preventing the delays to report properly

D.
 
Getting a new car with Navi built in....oh well, don't need Garmin or TomTom anymore...

Anyone in Toronto want the TomTom Traffic receiver I got less than a week ago? It is the latest version...

Also have my TomTom 720 for sale...
 
derek you will only see the difference if you go to the border of the coverage area. I was under the impression you were driving everyday from niagara to downtown toronto and therefore were only getting signal during part of your route (from burlington/oakville) . that is why i asked you about the new coverage. I guess i miss read your posts. from burlington you will see no difference. of course maybe you are getting higher signal levels now but from a certain thereshold level the receiver starts working almost the same with no apparent difference. hopefully Tomtom will fix the 1 minute delay issue with a firmware in the near future otherwise your 720 will never re-route you around traffic.

Navigator there is no traffic services in Canada via Tomtom Plus Traffic (GPRS/EDGE/UMTS) yet . Only if you use the new RDS-TMC receiver from tomtom you will get 1 free year trial of service in Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal (acctually for now south of montreal close to the Vermont border)
 
trafficinfo said:
derek you will only see the difference if you go to the border of the coverage area. I was under the impression you were driving everyday from niagara to downtown toronto and therefore were only getting signal during part of your route (from burlington/oakville) . that is why i asked you about the new coverage. I guess i miss read your posts. from burlington you will see no difference. of course maybe you are getting higher signal levels now but from a certain thereshold level the receiver starts working almost the same with no apparent difference. hopefully Tomtom will fix the 1 minute delay issue with a firmware in the near future otherwise your 720 will never re-route you around traffic.

Navigator there is no traffic services in Canada via Tomtom Plus Traffic (GPRS/EDGE/UMTS) yet . Only if you use the new RDS-TMC receiver from tomtom you will get 1 free year trial of service in Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal (acctually for now south of montreal close to the Vermont border)
Click to expand...
see I don't understand that. You pay.. what > $100 for an RDS-Antenna over the radio and you need to pay for service?

i thought it uses the RDS signals which is free? Am I missing something? I mean I get radio data to my car's radio for free.
 

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