Route discrepancies

[[email protected].]

Hi
I'm having issues with my tomtom routes
I develop the route in My Route App (MRA) the problem is when I download the route to my tomtom 410 it doesn't match what I created in MRA.
The first sign is the milage is different in the app to what it says on the tomtom and on close inspection the route in the tomtom does not follow the waypoints created in MRA even when I use loads of waypoints.
There's always been a slight descrepancy but now it is sometimes upto 10 miles out.
The settings for the route in the nav have never been changed but I've tryed them all anyway.
The nav is upto date
The nav is connected to mydrive when downloading route from MRA.

Has anyone had similar issues

 

[BMcG]

It is odd that you are now seeing a difference you never used to see

My first thought was that you might be planning the route in MRA with OpenStreetMap selected as the routing/navigation option
There is always a difference between OpenStreetMap, TomTom & Garmin routing unless you very tightly control the route with lots of shaping/via points as you say you are doing
If you attach the gpx file with the mileage differences maybe someone with MRA Gold could compare

Note: Routing/Navigation option is not the same as the map selected, the selected map is just a pretty picture.
The Routing/Navigation option is chosen under "Page Menu" & the TomTom & Garmin are not available in the free trial version.

 

[canderson]

Hi
I'm having issues with my tomtom routes
I develop the route in My Route App (MRA) the problem is when I download the route to my tomtom 410 it doesn't match what I created in MRA.
The first sign is the milage is different in the app to what it says on the tomtom and on close inspection the route in the tomtom does not follow the waypoints created in MRA even when I use loads of waypoints.
There's always been a slight descrepancy but now it is sometimes upto 10 miles out.
The settings for the route in the nav have never been changed but I've tryed them all anyway.
The nav is upto date
The nav is connected to mydrive when downloading route from MRA.

Has anyone had similar issues

If you are willing to zip up a copy of your *.gpx file, we can have a look at how MRA forms its files.

Part of the problem is that few understand that there are three different 'flavors' of *.gpx file content, and that a given *.gpx may be made up of one or even more than one of these 'flavors' (specifically, track, route and waypoint styles). TomTom isn't very transparent in how they handle these on the MyDrive site. Tracks are sent as-is, while it seems files with route point content aren't, which can generate some rather different results. I'd warn that using the word 'waypoints' here may or may not be a good thing. There is a flavor of *.gpx file that actually uses something called waypoints (indicated by <wpt> entries in a *.gpx file), and the MyDrive web site doesn't have a clue how to deal with those. I don't know if MRA uses routepoints or waypoints, but again, if you'll zip up a copy of your *.gpx, we can have a look.

 

[[email protected].]

If you are willing to zip up a copy of your *.gpx file, we can have a look at how MRA forms its files.

Part of the problem is that few understand that there are three different 'flavors' of *.gpx file content, and that a given *.gpx may be made up of one or even more than one of these 'flavors' (specifically, track, route and waypoint styles). TomTom isn't very transparent in how they handle these on the MyDrive site. Tracks are sent as-is, while it seems files with route point content aren't, which can generate some rather different results. I'd warn that using the word 'waypoints' here may or may not be a good thing. There is a flavor of *.gpx file that actually uses something called waypoints (indicated by <wpt> entries in a *.gpx file), and the MyDrive web site doesn't have a clue how to deal with those. I don't know if MRA uses routepoints or waypoints, but again, if you'll zip up a copy of your *.gpx, we can have a look.

Hi
I'm having issues with my tomtom routes
I develop the route in My Route App (MRA) the problem is when I download the route to my tomtom 410 it doesn't match what I created in MRA.
The first sign is the milage is different in the app to what it says on the tomtom and on close inspection the route in the tomtom does not follow the waypoints created in MRA even when I use loads of waypoints.
There's always been a slight descrepancy but now it is sometimes upto 10 miles out.
The settings for the route in the nav have never been changed but I've tryed them all anyway.
The nav is upto date
The nav is connected to mydrive when downloading route from MRA.

Has anyone had similar issues

 

[[email protected].]

If you are willing to zip up a copy of your *.gpx file, we can have a look at how MRA forms its files.

Part of the problem is that few understand that there are three different 'flavors' of *.gpx file content, and that a given *.gpx may be made up of one or even more than one of these 'flavors' (specifically, track, route and waypoint styles). TomTom isn't very transparent in how they handle these on the MyDrive site. Tracks are sent as-is, while it seems files with route point content aren't, which can generate some rather different results. I'd warn that using the word 'waypoints' here may or may not be a good thing. There is a flavor of *.gpx file that actually uses something called waypoints (indicated by <wpt> entries in a *.gpx file), and the MyDrive web site doesn't have a clue how to deal with those. I don't know if MRA uses routepoints or waypoints, but again, if you'll zip up a copy of your *.gpx, we can have a look.

Hi
Attached is the gpx file and method I use to download from MRA.
The jpeg is the route in MRA and shows 286 miles and the method I use to do download is their Interface connector. The miles on my satnav when opening the route is 306 a difference of 20 miles...I've tryed downloading the route in several different maps but the result is the same.

Cheers

 

[raesewell]

You need to make sure the route settings are the same in MRA and on your Tomtom, fastest route or avoid motorways etc.

 

[BMcG]

It looks like it may be to do with the difference between OpenStreetMap & TomTom routing
If I load your route with OpenstreetMap routing I get a similar mileage to you - 286.18
However when I select TomTom routing it is, as you point out, quite a bit larger

One of the reasons seems to be on your route the free OpenStreetMap is allowing you to route via what appears to be offroad paths - point 62 seems to be on a footpath - TomTom does not show any path/road in this location
There is a setting for "Offroad" in the "Page Menu > Toolkit" on the premium version, not sure if it available in the free version

So the issues appears to be down to the routing differences, the above is one example, there are several others & they probably all add up to the large difference your seeing
Overall it looks like your trying really hard, by adding lots & lots of waypoints, to force the routing to go where it does not really want to go
Unfortunately when you transfer this forced route to the TomTom sat nav it is just saying no way & recalculating/devising its own route which it believes can be navigated

Note: Routing/Navigation option is not the same as the selected map, the selected map is just a pretty picture.
The Routing/Navigation option is chosen under "Page Menu" & this selects the routing algorithm that calculates the route/mileage
The TomTom & Garmin routing options are not available in the free trial version of MRA.

 

[canderson]

Hi
Attached is the gpx file and method I use to download from MRA.
The jpeg is the route in MRA and shows 286 miles and the method I use to do download is their Interface connector. The miles on my satnav when opening the route is 306 a difference of 20 miles...I've tryed downloading the route in several different maps but the result is the same.

Cheers

That file is a combination of route points <rtept> and track points <trkpt>. I've looked at it briefly on GE. I'll need some time to take it apart properly and overlay it on a TomTom map just to see what falls out of it (it's a VERY long track to deal with visually at hires), but this file is going to cause some interesting results on TomTom.

 

[[email protected].]

Hi
Thankyou for your observations I didn't notice the error at waypoint 60 to 62 but on checking the route this is the only error or track I can see
I have MRA gold and not the free addition.
What is strange is I've done this route and no re-direction or error occurred between waypoints 60 to 62, I have since changed them waypoints to legitimate roads not tracks, changed the map to tomtom gold and exported it again to my tomtom rider, there is still a discrepancy of 10miles (292miles on MRA and 302 on the satnav)

 

[BMcG]

Hi Steve,
you probably figured it out by now but just in case you have not I think I may have an idea.

When I load the route into my Rider 410 I get a similar increase in mileage, from 290ish to 300ish which is the first warning sign something is amiss.
When I load the track I get the message "No Route Possible", which is the second warning sign, this time saying something is really messed up.
If everything is good with a gpx file from MRA loaded into the Rider, then both the Route & the Track files in the Rider should both work & have very similar mileages.

What these warning signs tell me are :-
1) For the Route - the Rider is taking a different path to the original MRA gpx Route & hence is calculating different mileage in the Rider.
2) For the Track - the Rider 410 cannot complete the calculation for the length of the Track file, possibly because there is a break/gap in the path it is using to try & calculate the distance.

Where I think the problem lies is there is a difference between the maps on the Rider 410 & TomTom maps in MRA (at least on my Rider 410 anyways) & this is leading to the divergence in mileages between the Rider & MRA.

The map difference I found is here a few miles south of Innerwick, at what someparts of the year maybe a ford
On my Rider 410 it shows the road ending at this point & this is where the Track calculation is probably failing.

The Route calculation works okay because it diverges from this road several miles earlier just south of Innerwick & takes a completely different more northerly path via Spott & Pitcox, before rejoining near the Whiteadder reservoir, hence the different mileage.

All I did was use the MRA split route tool to break the route into smaller segments, then find which segment the Rider would error with "No Route Possible" when loading the Track file. It was then easy to see (as above) where the Route in the Rider was diverging from the MRA route.

In short the Rider 410 map is wrong, hence you have a different mileage.

I think your spot on to be checking for mileage discrepancies when loading your routes, I do the same, I even include the MRA mileage in the route file name so it is easy to check when I load it in the Rider.
It looks like a cracking little route, a great mix of coastal views & scenic hills, afraid to say I am slightly jealous

 

[[email protected].]

Hi,
Thanks for taking the time to analyse the problem you've come up with some interesting findings.
What I can't understand is I've used the same methods and maps for years without any problems and only minor discrepancies between tomtom and MRA milage and rode hundreds of routes with no errors, I can only assume that tomtom map updates or MRA map updates have created this issue what I need now is to know how to easily fix it.
I think Tomtom maps in MRA need to synchronise with the tomtom satnav maps.
Yes this route is really nice to ride, there are some lovely roads in the UK and I've ridden most of them, I have a 4 day trip around the Lake District, Wales and the Peak District planned shortly so hope all is OK with MRA and Tomtom satnav for that.

Regards
Stephen

 

[BMcG]

I dont think it is the TomTom map in MRA that has the issue, it generates the route & tracks fine.
The route/track generated in TomTom MyDrive web also seems to work out as you want.
I think the problem is the map on the Rider, it is the map with the missing / broken road.

Guessing you have just been unlucky finding this inconsistency between the PC maps & sat nav map, but then again you are more likley to find such things when you take to tiny more scenic roads & rural areas
I don't believe sat nav routing algorithms were ever intended for the out of the way routing that we want,
thats why we spend so much time fighting with them to get them to go where we want

 

[canderson]

When was the 410's map last updated?

 

[[email protected].]

Hi
The maps on my 410 were updated just a couple of days ago, took nearly 2hrs.

Regards,
Stephen

 

[BMcG]

When was the 410's map last updated?

I normally update begining of each season, looks like map still the latest as showing no new update available
On Rider map version europe 1110.11945