TomTom - #1 in crappy customer service!

[glen_s]

warning - long post..

FYI, this is about my 3rd go around with this question, and the 3rd similar answer. Thinking about the old saying that insanity can be described as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Anyway, here is the deal:

After over two years of hearing that up to date Alberta coverage was "imminent", there still is no change, so again I write TomTom support and ask about it. This time I just want a simple answer to a simple question: WHEN does TomTom estimate Alberta coverage will be brought current? I would have been happy with a ball park estimate, or even them telling me they have no idea when, but it seems they can't do anything other than give standard canned answers. 6 weeks ago I send in this letter:

When are you going to get up to date maps for Alberta, currently TeleAtlas coverage is still missing and/or is inaccurate most of the rural areas outside the major cities, and there is no point in spending money on new maps that still do not show roads that have been in place for 3 decades. An example of Teleatlas coverage compared to Navteq coverage for the area I live in is attached, the data for it was just taken today.

I attached a jpeg comparing teleatlas and navteq maps for my area to this letter. Some weeks later I get this answer:

Thank you for contacting TomTom Customer Support regarding Alberta and your current map.

It is estimated that 10-15% of the road network changes every year. There is also inevitably some human error/subjectivity in the creation of a digital map. All of which means that maps must be constantly maintained to keep the level of map errors as low as possible. Tele Atlas has extensive survey teams constantly surveying new roads, changed roads, POI positioning and accuracy, map errors, etc. Each change and fix is then checked before being built into the next map release. TomTom predominantly uses Tele Atlas maps, then compiles the map vendor release (i.e. compresses it into a TomTom proprietary and specific format) and has it error-checked by TomTom?s own Quality Assurance team. This complex and labor-intensive process can mean it is several months before a map vendor?s new release is ready and fit for use in a TomTom product.

TomTom publishes four new map releases for customers per year, and by only using the latest available map releases from map vendors, TomTom ensures its customers always have the most recent map release in their newly purchased product. And all TomTom products are updatable. That is, the maps can be replaced with later map releases or added to with additional map regions.

Due to the high frequency of new map releases, there is a small chance that a new map is released between the production of a TomTom and the date that it is sold in retail. TomTom's recent products therefore come with a Latest Map Guarantee to allow users to check whether there is a more recent map release available. If a more recent map is available within 30 days of using the device, the user can download it at no charge via TomTom HOME.

TomTom has also introduced the unique and patented TomTom Map Share? technology. Map Share? revolutionizes electronic mapping by allowing users to instantly make corrections to the maps on their devices. These corrections take effect immediately. Corrections can also be shared with the entire TomTom community through TomTom HOME, making it possible to benefit from the local road knowledge of millions of other drivers.

I am sending you the link to the website which will provide you information on the MapShare program. Please click on the link below to view the information. If you are unable to click on the link, please copy and paste it into your internet browser.

TomTom, portable GPS car navigation systems - Support home - Select your product

If you have any further questions or comments, please email or call us at 866-486-6866 Monday through Friday, 7:00 AM until 11:00 PM EST.

With Best Regards,

<customer service rep>

Tom Tom Customer Support

So, other than the 1st sentence, a standard canned answer. My reply:

Thank you for your reply, unfortunately it does not even come close to answering my questions. I asked when are maps for Alberta, Canada, going to be brought up to date. I am not talking about errors per se, but the fact that road systems that are over two decades old are still not showing up on any teleatlas maps.

I bought my TomTom over two years ago now, and have heard time and time again that accurate Alberta maps were imminent, yet they are still hopelessly our of date. I am certainly not ready to spend a large amount of money on a new map that I know will not be accurate for rural Alberta, and hope that an accurate one will be out within the 30 day window like you suggest.

My question is simple, and a simple answer is all I want:

When do you estimate that the maps for Alberta will to be brought up to date? Next month?, next year? in two years?

If this level of support does not have an answer for this question, please forward it to someone that can give me an estimate, even a "ball park" would do at this point.

I have also put in mapshare corrections by the dozens, from wrong roads, gps off road, you name it. I have yet to see these shares show up in my updates, which I do often.

I have pointed out many errors on teleatlas site, many times, and the result is the same, no feedback, no corrections.

I am very disappointed in this product, and working in a GIS related field I get many questions on what are good units to buy. Unfortunately I can't recommend people buy TomTom units as they are still virtually unusable in Alberta.

Another few weeks pass, and I get this in my inbox this morning:

Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you. We have not heard back from you and the incident is now closed. We?d be happy to continue to service you if you still require assistance. Simply update this incident if you feel your original query has not been resolved or create a new incident if you have a new question.

We can always be reached through our Customer Support line via 1-866-486-6866.

Thank you and Best Regards,
The TomTom Customer Support Team

So there you have it, "we can't answer you, so we consider this solved"

I am tempted to answer again, but it's kind of like banging my head against a wall.

Oh well, guess it's time to ebay my 720 and go for a unit that uses Navteq..

 

[dhn]

Glen, what is the current map you are using for North_America in your 720? Is it the latest, 845??

 

[glen_s]

dhn - I am not sure exactly which map I have, The only time I take the TT out of the house now is if I'm traveling to BC, rest of the time I borrow the wife's Nuvi.

I keep a close eye on google maps, the way I understand it is any updates should show up on google maps before they will show up on TomTom maps, so if I see that known problem area's are still out of date then my assumption is that TomTom will be as well. Maybe that it a wrong assumption though?

In any case I am very reluctant to shell out big $$ for a map that will likely be no better than the current one for the areas I travel in.

I also use a garmin 305 sports gps for my running, and since they use only google maps for route overlays, they too show my routes on no roads at all since google went with teleatlas exclusively. When they also used Navteq I the overlays were accurate and I could even check distances with the measurement tool.

Attached is a recent file for a known problem area, left side is taken from TeleAtlas, right side is Navteq

 

[dhn]

Tap the satellite bars on your unit and the next screen shows the application version installed. Tap the version number and the next screen shows the map installed and its version (the latest is 845 for all models).

I know that prior to 845, TomTom didn't seem to do much for Canadian road updates. But, in 845, they have made improvements (they say) to 42,000 miles of Canadian roads.

I can tell you that in my area, there have been **significant** improvements in the 845 map as far as Advanced Lane Guidance/Reality View/IQ imbedded data over previous maps.

The Google map is NOT the 845 version. It is 840.

So, does that mean every road will be perfect, of course not. All I'm saying is that you see what is now available for your area before you continue the rant.

Yes, I know there is no way to find that out without having the map yourself. But if you give me a specific location you have issues with on your current map, I can see what 845 shows and provide feedback to you here.

 

[glen_s]

Well, I will definitely have a look and see if I can find a unit with the latest map on it. Out of curiosity would the latest off the shelf unit's be that up to date? (have the 845)

The reason I ask is because one of our local stores here just became a dealer for "The Source" and carries TomTom's and I could check there. Last time I talked to him though, he said he was telling people not to buy them and going to drop them from his inventory because he was getting tired of taking them back after people found they were only useful in downtown Edmonton/Calgary.

If you can check on the area I showed in that jpeg on your unit, if the roads show up that are showing on the Navteq map then that means they have updated at least this part of rural AB. The coordinates are:

+54? 48' 46.68", -111? 55' 25.80"

That would be great, appreciate your help!

 

[dhn]

Okay, if you are thinking that the TomTom current map is the same as the image on the left showing no roads, this is what 845 shows in that area:

So, maybe your rant is inappropriate, eh?

 

[glen_s]

Well, I'm glad to see that the coverage is more up to date, but as far as my "rant", which was about customer service, no I don't think it is at all. My "rant" was about the poor quality of customer service in this case, not the coverage itself. (although I have "ranted" about that on this board more than once..)

#1 - it was weeks between replies
#2 - the replies were canned answers that did not help me at all.
#3 - had they said something like: "Dear Glen, you will be pleased to know that our last update did indeed address many of the coverage problems in Alberta" I would have been happy. Even if it did not improve coverage and they had let me known that, I would still have been satisfied, because all I was looking for was a yes/no answer.
#4 - I had given them the same coordinates and map jpeg, had they shown me what you just did, I would have been tickled pink (like I am now)


Anyway, I really appreciate your help and the time you took bringing me up to speed. Thankfully there are boards like this, because I could not get this type of info from TomTom.

 

[glen_s]

dhn - I went to teleatlas site to see some other problem areas they had, and there is another development about 2km ATCF from that one that is even older than the one shown above that is still not showing, I am curious to see if it shows up on your device. The coordinates are:

+54? 47' 58.60", -111? 55' 40.01"

 

[dhn]

Shows me on 534 Township Road, then Buffalo Trail Rd, then a turn on 28A, turn right past Lakeview Dr, and ending on 867.

 

[glen_s]

None of those names sound familiar at all,maybe Navteq gave me the wrong coordinates. The road system I want to see if it shows up or not on TomTom new map is here, you can see it is just southwest a km or so from the first coordinates I gave you. The road is a crescent called "Sunset Cres" and the + should be right in the middle (if the map shows up the same for you as it does me on that link)

If that small series of roads is not there I'd find that odd, since that road has been there at least 10 years longer than the road system in the image you posted.

 

[pianoCM]

None of those names sound familiar at all,maybe Navteq gave me the wrong coordinates. The road system I want to see if it shows up or not on TomTom new map is here, you can see it is just southwest a km or so from the first coordinates I gave you. The road is a crescent called "Sunset Cres" and the + should be right in the middle (if the map shows up the same for you as it does me on that link)

If that small series of roads is not there I'd find that odd, since that road has been there at least 10 years longer than the road system in the image you posted.

I shall take a look at that section on my unit and let you know if the latest map does show correctly or not.

In the mean time, just to let you know that my house was built 30 years ago, a section in area just has been fixed in Tomtom v840 map and until now, it has NOT been fixed in Garmin/Magellan/YahooMaps/GoogleMaps, entire NavTeq database. So, bear with me, it took Tomtom (TeleAtlas) 30+ years to fix it, don't know how long it will be fixed by NavTeq, if not 35 years, it probably takes 45? 55 years?
So hang tight and don't feel so bad.
Oh, btw, did I mention that I've lived in CoMA (Communist of Massachusetts)?

 

[glen_s]

thanks for that pianoCM

If the map on Teleatlas site is indicitave of the latest TT map, it's at least an improvement over what we had, but still very lacking. If you compare it to Navteq for the same area you will see what I mean.

I am probably going to splurge for the new map or map guarantee if I can get it here, I'll be curious to see if the time it shows me off the road has improved as well.

The garmin units are very good for this area and able to find rural addresses ok, and I have nothing but praise for the TT in the neighboring province of BC.

Where you live/drive seems to matter a great deal on which unit is best suited, I can see why a lot of people own more than one.

 

[pianoCM]

thanks for that pianoCM

If the map on Teleatlas site is indicitave of the latest TT map, it's at least an improvement over what we had, but still very lacking. If you compare it to Navteq for the same area you will see what I mean.

I am probably going to splurge for the new map or map guarantee if I can get it here, I'll be curious to see if the time it shows me off the road has improved as well.

The garmin units are very good for this area and able to find rural addresses ok, and I have nothing but praise for the TT in the neighboring province of BC.

Where you live/drive seems to matter a great deal on which unit is best suited, I can see why a lot of people own more than one.

With TT v845 maps, it DOES show that section that you posted in the image, including Sunset Cres, however there's few of differences
1. TT shows route 868, while Yahoo gets 858?
2. In yr image, the Provincial Park St, in TT, it shows Range Road 133, then becomes Range Road 133A, then Township Rd 673A.
3. In TT, there is no connection from 868 (Provincial Park St) to Lakeview Dr.
4. In TT, Spruce Dr seems to be disconnected.

 

[pianoCM]

..., but still very lacking. If you compare it to Navteq for the same area you will see what I mean.

If you purely talk about the lacking in this area, I agree with you, but if you speak in general, I would say this statement is a premature statement.
We, this forum, as well as other gps forums such gpspassion, gpsreview, ......, had debated/discussed about this NavTeq vs TeleAtlas, 2 or 3 or even 4 years back and we all know that a certain area were well covered by this company but not others and vice versa. If I remember correctly, gpsreview did claim that TeleAtlas has better coverage in the NA area, especially in the United States than its competitor NavTeq. You can choose to believe or not BUT for end-users, we once again, emphasize that b4 you buy the gps unit, please do a little homework, making sure that within your area, which company has the better coverage then buy gps from it.
For example, in your case, if NavTeq is better then Garmin or Magellan is your choice.
Talking the lacking in term of road coverage? I was a Magellan as well as Garmin owner and now I am TT user, you can figure out why.

 

[glen_s]

Thanks for that pianoCM

It sounds like the TT has the coverage then, I do find it strange that these roads are not showing up on the Teleatlas maps though. They do have the names incorrect though, it is highway 858, although in this case it hardly matters because they have since changed the name yet again so neither is correct. Navteq however, did have the correct names, and TT / teleatlas is totally out to lunch with the Provincial Park street being called range and township roads. On the lakeview drive connecting with 858/pp road, if you are talking about on the right (east) side where it connects close to the junction of provincial park and 858, in this case the TT is "more correct" than Navteq is, as that is not an official road but a utility right-of-way corridor. (I think it may have been a proposed road at one time)

If you follow the provincial park street to the northwest, you will see it circles on an island on the lake, yahoo/navteq has the whole islands road network showing, teleatlas does not (although by the sounds of it TT might have it correct)

I am curious how TT got these updates, I don't think they mapped the area by driving it, but I could be wrong. The reason I think this is neither Teleatlas or Navteq are showing a new bypass road around the town itself, (further to the west) which has been in place for almost 5 years now.

As far as "lacking" goes, I just meant lacking in my area specifically, I was amazed at how many minor roads show up in the province of BC on my tomtom, even old dirt roads that are now grown in show up.

In any case, from the info you and dhn have provided me I am now going to update my map. I wish TomTom could had been near as helpful as you two have been, hence the title of my OP..

 

[pianoCM]

If you follow the provincial park street to the northwest, you will see it circles on an island on the lake, yahoo/navteq has the whole islands road network showing, teleatlas does not (although by the sounds of it TT might have it correct)

You mean following the PP to the end of that strip of land?
As far as I can see, yes v845 map on Tomtom does show just like what being shown on Yahoo Maps.
Note: Google Maps doesn't

 

[gatorguy]

And if you want to see the most recent Navteq map, try Bing

 

[canderson]

Note: Google Maps doesn't

Google split from Teleatlas as a supplier a while back, and it seems they have fully gone their own way with maps for the last six months or more.

If you want to see what Teleatlas changes might exist for FUTURE TomTom maps, go to Teleatlas.com and navigate to the area where you can suggest changes to their maps. That will allow you to actually browse the current release of Teleatlas. You don't actually have to make a change -- just use the tools as if you planned to do so. That seems to be the most reliable way of observing their coverage issues and modifications.

 

[glen_s]

Thats news to me, I thought Google was still exclusivley with Teleatlas. I know when they dropped the Navteq layers I could no longer see my routes from my garmin 305 on my garmin connect page. Prior to that I could see which sides of the roads I had run on.

 

[canderson]

Yup. Happened the first week of October, 2009. They started with Teleatlas in September of 2008 as they began to ditch the Navteq collection, right after Navteq was bought by Nokia. Short relationship with Teleatlas.