Inefficient Routing & Bad ETA Calculations

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Nov 25, 2007
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I decided to treat myself to a new GPS... my trusty little Garmin i2 worked fine, but entering the destination information via a scroll wheel was tedious. So, after playing around with the various models at Best Buy, I ended up choosing a TomTom One XL-S, which in addition to the option of a QWERTY on-screen keyboard (which none of the other brands appeared to have), gives me a nice big color screen, and it says the street names too. I also like how it presents navigation information (being able to select what information you want displayed, and specifying that it be displayed along the side of the screen, leaving more vertical room for the map).

Anyway, I used it on our Thanksgiving trip to Texas, and when navigating to a restaurant in an unfamiliar town, I noticed something peculiar. Turns out the restaurant we were looking for was just a few blocks off the Interstate on a major road. It had us exit on that road, but instead of sending us straight to the restaurant, it directed us on a circuitous route that undoubtedly added several minutes to the trip. As a result of this routing, we ended up arriving on the same side of the street that the destination was on... going straight there right off the Interstate would have involved a U-turn. To a certain extent, I agree with this logic... I like to avoid U-turns when possible. But I just thought the big circle it sent us on was a little excessive.

Later in the trip, a similar thing happened. This restaurant was right on the highway, so I didn't need help finding it... I was just using the GPS to get an ETA. As we approached, instead of directing us to make a U-turn, it wanted to send us along a series of back streets, even though the restaurant was right there in front of us. In this case, of course, I was able to just ignore the GPS.

So far I'm a little surprised at how aggressively the TomTom tries to avoid U-turns. At a minimum, "avoid U-turns when possible" should be a user-selectable option.

But this is a relatively minor problem. A more significant issue involves the TomTom's choices in routing, and in its ETA calculations... and after experimenting with the unit yesterday, I believe the two issues are both at least partially linked to bad (or inadequate) map data.

I put in a route that I drive regularly... from my suburban home to my office in New Orleans. Getting there involves exiting the Interstate onto a 4 lane major street that the office is on, and driving about a mile. Very direct and simple.

The route that the TomTom created would send me PAST this exit to the next exit, down that adjacent major street, then on a stair-step route through some smaller streets to arrive at the office. Examining the map of the route, I think I know why it made this decision... because of the path the Interstate follows, that second exit is actually a bit closer to the office (on the north/south axis) than the exit of the street the office is actually on...


gps.jpg


(the red line indicates the route I normally take)


So, it's thinking is probably "stay on the Interstate as long as possible". But, there's no way that this route, through back streets with stop signs every block or two, is faster (and yes, I've confirmed that the TomTom is indeed set to "fastest" not "shortest" for routing preference). And, FWIW, Google Maps gives the correct route.

This has me a bit concerned... in this case, I don't need the GPS to tell me how to get to the office, so this particular routing issue is inconsequential. But what if this was not a familiar location? Instead of going straight there in the most efficient route, I'd instead be on a nice scenic tour of the French Quarter.

From the reading I've done on the issue, I know TomTom's routing engine is often blamed for this kind of stuff. However, I think it goes beyond that.

I ran through this route in the demo mode (where it "drives" the route for you) and observed the speeds it used. Surprisingly, when it was driving through these small streets, it showed a speed of 31mph. The speed limit on these streets is 20mph. I then forced it to go my route (again, marked by the red line)... the speed limit is 35, and it showed a speed of 33mph.

So, in other words, it's overestimating speed on the small back streets, and underestimating speed on the big street, which has the effect of making it think my route is slower and that its route is faster.

Moving on, I then set up a route over the stretch of highway where the TomTom had calculated an abnormally high ETA during our Texas trip. This is a 4-lane divided highway with speed limit of 70 for most of the way (sometimes slows to 55 through towns, maybe even 45), and very few traffic lights. The TomTom shows a speed of 62mph during the open stretches, and 37mph through towns, which is far lower than reality.

In contrast, when I set it to travel on the Interstate, it shows a speed of 75mph (speed limit is 70mph)... I assume the 75mph takes into account that most people drive a little over the speed limit. However, even through the New Orleans metro area (maybe a 15 - 20 mile stretch), where the speed limit drops to 60mph, the TomTom still shows 75mph.

As another test, I tried the small residential streets around my house... 20mph speed limit, TomTom shows 31mph.

So, it appears that the TeleAtlas folks are simply applying blanket rules to various classes of roads... "Interstates are 75mph, major highways are 62mph, major highways through towns are 37mph, small residential streets are 31mph, etc.", instead of using the actual speed limits, and I think this is causing much of the strange routing and ETA behavior I'm experiencing.

I'm very tempted to return it and go with a Nuvi. But I REALLY like the TomTom's UI and feature set. Plus, the performance of the GPS receiver really seems superb... it locks on almost instantly upon powering up (even inside).

--Michael
 
even in canada, the Tom Tom One performs kinda the same.

The old addage, "you get what you pay for" is why I haven't gone the chepear route of the ONE series.
 
even in canada, the Tom Tom One performs kinda the same.

The old addage, "you get what you pay for" is why I haven't gone the chepear route of the ONE series.
So the more expensive TomTom models have better routing and ETA? This is a bit confusing to me, as it seems like, again, the problems are related to the speeds that are assigned to the various roads in the map database, which would be the same regardless of the model, correct?

--Michael
 
I believe that "like Garmin" the units can all be upgraded to use the same software, minus a few features like text to speech, so your routing algorithm should be the same as the higher end units.
 
I did a lot of reading today on this issue. Apparently, a previous version of the TomTom maps DID have speed limit data included, and at some point it mysteriously disappeared, causing routing and ETA problems. I can live with the minor routing issues, but the ETA is another matter... that's a very important feature to me, and it's all but useless for longer trips, especially those that include stretches of non-Interstate highways, where the error is dramatic (like saying a 2 hour trip will take 3 hours).

Others have sent e-mails to TomTom inquiring about this issue, only to receive generic copied/pasted responses that clearly indicate a certain degree of tone-deafness to the severity of the problem (maybe ETAs work fine in Europe).

Frustrated, I picked up a Garmin Nuvi 350 today, and will play around a bit to decide which one to keep. I had tried the Garmin out for a while in the store last week and didn't really like it that much. Spending some quality time with it this evening, well, I still don't like it.

I mean, it's a nifty little unit... seems well designed. But it comes across as very "simplified" in terms of its navigation features and customization options. Then again, its routes appear to be a bit better (not enough to sway my decision on this factor alone). And, most importantly, its ETA calculations are reasonably accurate.

So, I'm faced with a nasty dilemma... the much-preferred UI and feature set of the TomTom vs. the more accurate navigation/ETA of the Garmin.

--Michael
 
Michael...

Very nice discussion and research. I purchased a TomTom One LE last week and had previously had a Garmin with no touch screen. Like you, I love the interface, useability, etc. but am finding a lot of software related flaws. The routing issue is one I've noticed and am concerned with.

I also have concerns with the Traffic, road conditions and weather services. All are faulty from what I can see.

I look forward to hearing others chime in on this thread, and hopefully lead to some solutions.

I looked into alternatives to the TomTom as well, but pricing and lack of features is making me think I'll hold onto the TomTom and hope for software updates to fix flaws.

Right now my opinion is "These are very nice ideas for features, but they aren't executed well."
 
Thanks for a thorough description of your experience with your TT ONE XL-S. I just received mine from Amazon.com this week - it is intended to be an bonus Christmas gift "to my wife" as she complains that I never ask directions. I have not turned it on or hooked it to my computer - want to save my 30 day update coupon until I know that an update is available.

Even with the issues raised here, I still would lean toward purchasing TomTom over its competitors, based on comparison of the marketing promises of the manufacturers - tomtom is a handsome unit and could turn out to be a runaway favorite.

I guess I join you all in the wait for software upgrades.
 
Even with the issues raised here, I still would lean toward purchasing TomTom over its competitors, based on comparison of the marketing promises of the manufacturers - tomtom is a handsome unit and could turn out to be a runaway favorite.

I guess I join you all in the wait for software upgrades.
Yes, it is indeed a great GPS... it's a shame it's crippled by this ETA problem. Of course, to be fair, Garmins seem to be a bit overly optimistic on ETAs (particularly through local streets with lots of stop signs and red lights). But it's nothing as dramatic as the huge errors the TomTom is giving for highway routes.

I wouldn't have a problem waiting for an update, but I get the sense that TomTom doesn't even think there IS a problem.

I guess the question (which no one but TomTom can answer) is whether the problem is with the inadvertent absence of speed data on the maps, or if the speed data is there but the TomTom isn't interpreting it correctly. If it's the latter, a fix would presumably be easy (and free). If it's the former, it could take a lot longer (how often does TomTom release map updates?), and probably would NOT be free, despite the fact that it is clearly a defect. That rubs me the wrong way.

But still, I LIKE the TomTom, while the Nuvi is just kinda... there.

--Michael
 
I'm curious if issues like this are resolved by having the more detailed North American map set? Perhaps those have more detail about the roads themselves that can better help TomTom determine times better and thus better routes??
 
I have not turned it on or hooked it to my computer - want to save my 30 day update coupon until I know that an update is available.

I guess I join you all in the wait for software upgrades.

FYI according to the website directed on your coupon https://www.tomtom.com/latestmap/, "Roads change and maps become outdated, therefore TomTom regularly releases new maps. TomTom would like to ensure that the map that comes preloaded on your device is the most up-to-date version available. More information

You can check this in TomTom HOME 2 and this no longer requires the map check code.".

Just wanted to let you know.
 
I've use my Go910 everytime I'm in the US and have not experienced a single problem.
If you wouldn't mind, could you do a route for me, and tell me what the travel time is?

Lafayette LA to Des Allemands LA, but using US90 instead of I-10 (mine first chose I-10, but selected US90 after I asked it to find an alternative route).

The US90 route is about 120 miles and takes just under 2 hours to drive. However, my TomTom is calculating almost 3 hours.

--Michael
 
Using the North America v6.75 map, it takes about 3 hours.

(I think they've built in a 1 hour stop to eat crawfish!)
 
If you wouldn't mind, could you do a route for me, and tell me what the travel time is?

Lafayette LA to Des Allemands LA, but using US90 instead of I-10 (mine first chose I-10, but selected US90 after I asked it to find an alternative route).

The US90 route is about 120 miles and takes just under 2 hours to drive. However, my TomTom is calculating almost 3 hours.

--Michael

Using the v 7.161 map. It takes 3:04 hours and 123 miles. However using I-10 it is 2:28 hours and 138 miles.

Hope this helps.
 
I've use my Go910 everytime I'm in the US and have not experienced a single problem.

The question is how familiar are you with your US routes?
People are not saying that TomTom will not get you there, just that there are better routes. Do you know other ways to reach your US destinations?
 
Using the v 7.161 map. It takes 3:04 hours and 123 miles. However using I-10 it is 2:28 hours and 138 miles.
Thanks, that's pretty much what I got. The estimate given for the I-10 route is reasonably accurate... a little long, but certainly close enough.

The US90 route works out to a calculated average speed of a little over 40mph which, of course, is terribly inaccurate (the speed limit is 70mph for most of the way... even through the towns it is 45 - 65).

--Michael
 
I have a go 510 with version 7.161 and just downloaded the new map 7.1... now I have map share,,very cool,,,
well worth the update...but to the point, I travel from my airport to Albany NY airport and it's 154 miles by highway and it takes about 2.15 to 2.5hr to drive that works out to 64 to 70 mph , now I put this into the TT and it came up with 153 mile and it will take 2.39 hr.. now I can't expected it to be any better than that.. I haven't taken the TT on that trip as yet , but I am sure it will be close..
so I put my trip to JFK airport , it's 323 miles and 5.29 hr
that's about right if I use a car, no traffic, and my gas stop is fast but on avg. it takes 6 hr.. all and all its good.. I just wished it would save my trips into my favorites the way i want it to go, rather that using the itinerary splash screen to find my trips and then load them after you deleted your last itineray... lot of steps
 
I travel from my airport to Albany NY airport and it's 154 miles by highway and it takes about 2.15 to 2.5hr to drive that works out to 64 to 70 mph , now I put this into the TT and it came up with 153 mile and it will take 2.39 hr.. now I can't expected it to be any better than that..
Interesting... just to confirm, this is a regular highway, not an Interstate?

--Michael
 
this is the interstate to Albany from Plattsburgh, NY, so I went by route 9 the only other way to take and it will be 4:09 hr and 159 miles. which should be right being the fact your hitting every little town and speed limit is 55 mph at best, but remember I be going though the Adirondack mountains, and you nerve do a steady speed..
 
u-turns

I would just like to be able to see U-turns. I, too, encountered this weirdness yesterday and was a little surprised that it wouldn't see U-turns.
 

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