My .02 on the 920T/930T - federal agent

I have a TomTom GO 920t there are a few things that bother me. I have a 920t /currently running Navcore 8.01 and the newest north american maps.

My Background:
I work for an alphabet agency. I spend countless hours on surveillance and travelling to arrest badguys and take their contraband. I can say for the most part the 920 is great. However their are a few things that cause me concern and will prompt me to sell the TT and get a Garmin.

The 920 has all the Bells and whistles. I love the map share feature but the biggest problem I see right now is that TT is running off Tele Atlas. Tele Atlas maps are not as accurate as Navteq. I hear a lot of people saying their are limitations to both providers but I can tell you that in my experience that is not true. Tele Atlas is not as good on the West Coast.

It has been my experience that Navteq and Tele Atlas bring back similar results in established neighborhoods but in new places Tele Atlas has some problems. The address/block information is off. So if you search for an address that is not well established you could be 1/2 mile away from where you need to be.

Which is why the TT POI database is filled with errors. I just got the new maps and attempted to put in new POI's "By address." Doing so places the POI about 1/2 mile away from the actual location. I conducted a search of POI's in the Database and learned that 7/10 poi's in that area were off by almost a 1/2 mile. (The POI's appeared to be in the middle of the dessert). It's not the device. It's Tele Atlas. Was easy to figure out. I used Yahoo maps (Navteq) and Google Maps (Tele Atlas) to search for the same address. They were off by almost 1/2 a mile.

Don't believe me try it yourself (758 S Watson rd, Buckeye, Arizona) type it in your TT or google you get sent to rattlesnake land. Type it in Yahoo maps / Garmin you get the right location.

I'm not bashing the TT. The device is great. The tele atlas maps the TT's are based on are off at least where I was trying to put these POI's in.

I will say this, the new maps and IQ routing makes a big difference on routing. Understand that I have a government issued Garmin Nuvii 205 that I compare the routes to on a daily basis. With IQ routing the TT's routes in my local area are very close to the routes I would drive on a daily basis. The Nuvii 205 routes are not as good as the TT with IQ but are better than the TT's without IQ. (I know quality of routes are subjective. This is just my opinion based on about 90-100 routes travelled).

So here is my summary. If TT finds the address. My experience has been that it will get you there using the best route. Again this is compared to a Nuvii 205 without traffic and without any advanced routing like what is found on the high end Nuvii's. I have always found the address using TT (100 or so trys) with one exception. I was searching for an address for a search warrant and put in the correct city and address. Unfortunately according to Tele Atlas I was not in the city of Goodyear I was in Buckeye. Well I didn't know that and I had no idea which city to search for because I'm not from that area. Caused me to have to get to the location with the assistance of another agent. Shoudn't ever have that problem when I have a GPS not a deal breaker though I just have to realize the limitations of the search engine. Didn't have the Garmin then so I couldn't compare.

The POI database is where the Garmin 205 is leaps and bounds ahead of the TT. I'm not certain how many POI's the 205 has preloaded. I can say this though I have never been driving in circles looking for a meet location since I picked up the Garmin it has always been spot on.

Two weeks ago a got the auto restart bug. Couldn't use the GPS until I came home and reloaded the OS, Maps and flashed the device. All is well now but I would have been PO'd if I needed to get to a meet or travelled out of town while it was bugging out like that.

Again I'm not down on the TT I'm just aware that there are some limitations. The mapshare function is absolutely awesome. There are a lot of things that make the TT a great device. I just think in a year or so when it's time to get a new device I'm going to test the waters with a high end Garmin.

And if this thing start bugging again Ebay and a new Garmin sooner than later. I can't afford to have an unreliable device.

Just my .02

You have made fair comments and, while indeed it's true that TeleAtlas does have better mapping than Navteq in some areas, the important thing is that the mapping is not better in areas where you need accuracy.

In that case, perhaps your decision to go with a Garmin is appropriate for you.

Allow me to direct you to http://www.gpsreview.net/forums for a general gps forum where experienced users can direct you to the best model for your needs.

m0j0 said:

It has been my experience that Navteq and Tele Atlas bring back similar results in established neighborhoods but in new places Tele Atlas has some problems. The address/block information is off. So if you search for an address that is not well established you could be 1/2 mile away from where you need to be.

Click to expand...

I'll let others reply to the rest of your post but I'm affraid the Navteq and Tele Atals became equally bad with the introduction of their ?2008 maps.

In March Google still used Navteq maps and they moved my street address 86 m to the west (about 100 yards).
I was in the market for my first GPS and had an eMail exchange with Navteq about that. When I asked if that had to do with the DoD that they moved me with their new map they ended up saying that they would have to make a physical check about my contention and that that may take two years as they only had two employees for all of Ontario.
Funny as it is, checking a few business addresses not far from me, they are almost all correct.

After Google changed to Tele Atlas maps and their 2008 deviation is about a yard away from Navteq's.

If you know the exact location beforehand you could make a POI with Tyre and move the coordinate in Tyre to the exact spot.

I have a hunch that this may not be of much use to you if you are in the field and have to move to a different address received over the phone.

Arno said:

I'll let others reply to the rest of your post but I'm affraid the Navteq and Tele Atals became equally bad with the introduction of their ?2008 maps.

In March Google still used Navteq maps and they moved my street address 86 m to the west (about 100 yards).
I was in the market for my first GPS and had an eMail exchange with Navteq about that. When I asked if that had to do with the DoD that they moved me with their new map they ended up saying that they would have to make a physical check about my contention and that that may take two years as they only had two employees for all of Ontario.
Funny as it is, checking a few business addresses not far from me, they are almost all correct.

After Google changed to Tele Atlas maps and their 2008 deviation is about a yard away from Navteq's.

If you know the exact location beforehand you could make a POI with Tyre and move the coordinate in Tyre to the exact spot.

I have a hunch that this may not be of much use to you if you are in the field and have to move to a different address received over the phone.

Click to expand...

I can completely echo this - there are going to be discrepancies in between between the two map providers, but you can't immediately call Tele Atlas the inferior of the two. I hear just as many complaints about Navteq maps as I do about Tele Atlas's - and Tele Atlas is the company I see moving in the right direction, partnering with TomTom and Google to try to produce better maps for its consumers. Have you tried submitting corrections on Tele Atlas's Map Insight page?

I don't know how many times that I posted for the exact same topic.
Let's say one more time.

Before ONE decide to buy a GPS, please do homework.
Search your own address, your best bud's address, all addresses that you ever need to see if Tomtom has all, if Garmin has all, if Magellan has all, then decide which unit to buy.
In my area, TeleAtlas covers much more in detail than NavTeq so I bought Tomtom, not Garmin or Magellan.
If yours in the opposite way, then buy Garmin or Magellan and not Tomtom.
So simple, isn't it!

dhn said:

for a general gps forum where experienced users can direct you to the best model for your needs.

Click to expand...

Appreciate the info I just don't need it. I own a 920T (my personal GPS). I also have a basic Garmin Nuvee 205 (Government Issue). I'm not dropping anymore money on a GPS.

Arno said:

I'll let others reply to the rest of your post but I'm affraid the Navteq and Tele Atals became equally bad with the introduction of their ?2008 maps.

Click to expand...

Again, with a limited sample. Trips to Texas, California, Georgia, Indiana, Arizona, Florida (of course) in the past few months. I am telling you the TT has been off more often than the Garmin. So I hear what you are saying I'm just saying out of 100 or so attempts to locate an address without prior knowledge of where the address lies the Garmin has been more accurate. The accuracy difference is the maps. Just my experience yours may be different.

Arno said:

I have a hunch that this may not be of much use to you if you are in the field and have to move to a different address received over the phone.

Click to expand...

You are correct. When I need the GPS I don't have time to make check the location and set a poi based on the coordinates. That is simply impossible. I have other thing to worry about.

Buddharay said:

I can completely echo this - there are going to be discrepancies in between between the two map providers, but you can't immediately call Tele Atlas the inferior of the two.

Click to expand...

I am just reporting back what I have observed. I'll put it like this in plain black and white. When I need to get to an address I can usually find it with either GPS about 98% of the time. They may be off a house or two but common sense and simply looking at the addresses listed on the house usually gets you where you need to go. However, when you don't have an address on the house, curb, or mailbox. I have observed the Garmin to get me to the right address more often than the TT. That's all. I'm not saying one is better, worse, or inferior. I'm simply stating the facts as I have observed them.

pianoCM said:

Before ONE decide to buy a GPS, please do homework.
Search your own address, your best bud's address, all addresses that you ever need to see if Tomtom has all, if Garmin has all, if Magellan has all, then decide which unit to buy.

Click to expand...

There is no way that I can search all the addresses I need to search. (Basically every address in the united states and half of europe.) I won't bite on your condescending post. I'll just say this. I have had more luck being "spot on" with the Garmin. It's not a huge margin. I have been at the wrong location a few times with the TT and once with the Garmin (actually today - went to a rural area in Arizona and garmin put me 3 houses away from the target). Either way I'm splitting hairs both are very good, just not perfect. 7 years ago we were using MAPSCO.

When someone offers advice (which happened to be sound, btw), you can choose to accept it or not; that is your choice, of course.

However, to label advice you don't accept as 'condescending' is hardly appropriate or correct.

You've made your point. For your needs, a Garmin provides you with more confidence. Fine. There has to be a reason why that brand is the biggest seller in North America.

I offered you a link to another forum where all gps types are discussed. You said you didn't need it. Okay. All these gps forums are not just about what brand to buy but how to use your brand better.

dhn said:

You have made fair comments and, while indeed it's true that TeleAtlas does have better mapping than Navteq in some areas, the important thing is that the mapping is not better in areas where you need accuracy.

In that case, perhaps your decision to go with a Garmin is appropriate for you.

Allow me to direct you to http://www.gpsreview.net/forums for a general gps forum where experienced users can direct you to the best model for your needs.

Click to expand...

That is exactly what I was going to say. I'm on the east coast and I have used both Garmin (Navteq) and Tomtom (Teleatlas) (others as well), both have mapping errors. There is no such thing as a perfect GPS device. It is basically what works best for you and in the area you most frequently drive.

There is no way that I can search all the addresses I need to search

Click to expand...

No way???
You're telling me that you don't know how to use Google Maps and search for a few addresses that you need???
Both Garmin/Magellan and Tomtom have the beauty of it. If you cannot simply perform an address search on Tomtom, how would you do on your Garmin anyway?
Garmin comes up with some needed addresses and Tomtom doesn't, so it is an easy choice, throw your Tomtom away and if you ever want to buy another GPS device, go with what you like best.
Don't buy a BMW then complaining if loving Lexus so much.
Don't buy a Sony TV then complaining if loving Panny so much.
DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION WHICH ONE TO GET.

Ron21 said:

both have mapping errors. There is no such thing as a perfect GPS device. It is basically what works best for you and in the area you most frequently drive.

Click to expand...

I never said one was perfect or best. I said that I have noticed a considerable amount of mapping errors with the TT. I don't blame the device I blame the map.

pianoCM said:

No way???
You're telling me that you don't know how to use Google Maps and search for a few addresses that you need???
Both Garmin/Magellan and Tomtom have the beauty of it. If you cannot simply perform an address search on Tomtom, how would you do on your Garmin anyway?
Garmin comes up with some needed addresses and Tomtom doesn't, so it is an easy choice, throw your Tomtom away and if you ever want to buy another GPS device, go with what you like best.
Don't buy a BMW then complaining if loving Lexus so much.
Don't buy a Sony TV then complaining if loving Panny so much.
DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION WHICH ONE TO GET.

Click to expand...

No I can't search them all. I went to 15 addresses today. TT was perfect BTW.

Are you not paying attention to what I'm saying. I bought a TT after researching everything including coming to this and a ton of message boards. I listened to opinions and felt the 920 was best for me. IT IS WHAT I CHOSE TO PURCHASE. To say I love Garmin or favor them in any way is ridiculous. I had no favorite. I chose the TT. Gov't provided me with a Garmin and I am pointing out my experience with them both. If I have a bias it's toward the TT I paid big $$ for it a year ago. I actually gave the Garmin to a subordinate today so I'll be putting the TT to the test at least for the next few weeks.

dhn said:

When someone offers advice (which happened to be sound, btw), you can choose to accept it or not; that is your choice, of course.

However, to label advice you don't accept as 'condescending' is hardly appropriate or correct.

Click to expand...

And you are calling me condescending?

Are you guys daft? I love the TT. I love mapshare and some of the other great features I'm just comparing my "real time" experiences with two products. There are good and bad about both.

You guys seem really defensive. You shouldn't be, I'm not attacking the TT I'm just reporting the facts. It's what you (taxpayers) pay me to do. You might not like what I'm reporting and my report may be different If I worked in the Pacific Northwest but I don't.

m0j0 said:

Don't believe me try it yourself (758 S Watson rd, Buckeye, Arizona) type it in your TT or google you get sent to rattlesnake land. Type it in Yahoo maps / Garmin you get the right location.

Click to expand...

I tried it. My TT 920 put me about a half mile to the north of the correct point; Google put me about a half mile to the south of the correct point; Yahoo and Mapquest (both Navteq) put me at the correct spot. I checked that by using Mapview on Google, spotting a Kentucky Fried across the street, then looking up it's address. Yep, correct place!

It appears TT has the house numbers off by almost 2000

m0j0 said:

And you are calling me condescending?

Are you guys daft? I love the TT. I love mapshare and some of the other great features I'm just comparing my "real time" experiences with two products. There are good and bad about both.

You guys seem really defensive. You shouldn't be, I'm not attacking the TT I'm just reporting the facts. It's what you (taxpayers) pay me to do. You might not like what I'm reporting and my report may be different If I worked in the Pacific Northwest but I don't.

Click to expand...

MOJO READ!!! He said its inappropriate to call OTHERS condescending when they offer free advice.

No one was defensive as far as I can see.

The OTHER site DHN referred to has a test of 1000 address searches and the TA database won by a small margin over Navteq. i just saw a post somewhere else where the poster was trashing Navteq in Ohio. Try to find Boardman and Austintown (Ohio) in your Garmin!!!!

I have Navteq and TA units and I can confirm you wont find them.

Higher end Garmins dont have a different routing engine! The routing engine is the same for all Garmin in each respective model generation. That is the 7x0, 2x0, etc hae the same engine. The 3x0 and the 6x0 also share the same engine.

Finally, you are sitting on an ideal situation with top brands running TA and NT maps! It is nigh impossible to get better coverage than that.

If you tend to trust the Garmin more, make that your lead device, but keep the TT as backup.

Also, from now on, all TA releases will make a quantum leap in quality over the next 18 months or so...why? TomTom now owns TA and will be passing on Mapshare update data with them freely. This means that TA will be able to further refine their maps on the cheap at a hitherto not seen pace by ANY map provider. We have done the work for them.

FlyGuy said:

I tried it. My TT 920 put me about a half mile to the north of the correct point; Google put me about a half mile to the south of the correct point; Yahoo and Mapquest (both Navteq) put me at the correct spot. I checked that by using Mapview on Google, spotting a Kentucky Fried across the street, then looking up it's address. Yep, correct place!

It appears TT has the house numbers off by almost 2000

Click to expand...

Well Garmin does not even recognize at least 2 rural towns in Ohio! That is just for starters. They BOTH have weaknesses and these weaknesses vary by region!

Mapshare benefit not really apparent

infama said:

Well Garmin does not even recognize at least 2 rural towns in Ohio! That is just for starters. They BOTH have weaknesses and these weaknesses vary by region!

Click to expand...

It's even odder than that. In Jan. 2008, my then new 920 had a new local roundabout in it's map, while Google didn't. Both Teleatlas, of course. Google has it now.

It is disappointing that Google still doesn't show two older roundabouts (over two years old), while yahoo.com does; further, the Google sat. photo shows the roundabouts clearly, and you can see Google map streets going through the middle of a convention center. I reported these roundabouts via mapshare Jan 2008, yet they are apparently not in the Teleatlas database.

So, while I still have high hopes for Mapshare, I'm not encouraged by these errors, and I'm really steamed about paying $110 for a map update that I've helped improve. Of course, I will never pay that much for a new map, because I'll skip a year, and then decide on which NEW unit to buy with the $220 I'm saving by not buying a map every year. The new unit will have to offer new maps for about $50, so it might not be a TomTom.

FlyGuy said:

It's even odder than that. In Jan. 2008, my then new 920 had a new local roundabout in it's map, while Google didn't. Both Teleatlas, of course. Google has it now.

It is disappointing that Google still doesn't show two older roundabouts (over two years old), while yahoo.com does; further, the Google sat. photo shows the roundabouts clearly, and you can see Google map streets going through the middle of a convention center. I reported these roundabouts via mapshare Jan 2008, yet they are apparently not in the Teleatlas database.

So, while I still have high hopes for Mapshare, I'm not encouraged by these errors, and I'm really steamed about paying $110 for a map update that I've helped improve. Of course, I will never pay that much for a new map, because I'll skip a year, and then decide on which NEW unit to buy with the $220 I'm saving by not buying a map every year. The new unit will have to offer new maps for about $50, so it might not be a TomTom.

Click to expand...

You need to remember Google, for its maps, does not have TTs restrictions in storage space. They could update their maps everyday if their provider could supply updates this fast. TT needs to compress their data so it fits TT models' internal memory requirements plus voice recognition, tts and required software to make it all work.

You are not required to update your map. I know I do not update my paper maps unless they are more than 5 years old... Of course TT,s marketing tries to get you to update them with new features but can you resist ALG and IQR? Are they essential to your getting to your destination? You lived without them before and got there in time. I'm wary of marketing hype and know reality often times differ from what I come to expect. The ALG reality view is just one example of this and no one could tell how many static images there are on NA maps with my guess being 20 to 30 with many cities not covered. All too often, local knowledge is much better than the praised IQR or IQR2. TT seldom gives meaningful information about new maps released. For all I know, the new roads could all be in North Dakota and New Mexico...

As for price and updates, they should imitate Navigon with their 79$ updates for up to 3 years and 12 releases! It makes much more sense.

Gilbert said:

You need to remember Google, for its maps, does not have TTs restrictions in storage space. They could update their maps everyday if their provider could supply updates this fast. TT needs to compress their data so it fits TT models' internal memory requirements plus voice recognition, tts and required software to make it all work.

Click to expand...

That's not a good excuse any more. Memory is cheap, and my TT has NA and Europe and still 200 mbs free. I'd dump Europe for more correct roads in the USA, or buy a SD card.

Gilbert said:

All too often, local knowledge is much better than the praised IQR or IQR2. TT seldom gives meaningful information about new maps released. For all I know, the new roads could all be in North Dakota and New Mexico...

As for price and updates, they should imitate Navigon with their 79$ updates for up to 3 years and 12 releases! It makes much more sense.

Click to expand...

Local knowledge is always going to be better. I hope IQ routing fixes something that causes bad routing in TT: incorrect speeds for some roads. Locally, there is a 60 mile stretch routed at 40 mph, but it has a 65 speed limit, and everyone drives 70 mph. The 40 mph routing speed means TT uses a route that is 15 miles and about 10 minutes longer and goes over two passes instead of staying on a flatter road. I see the same problem in other states. I've reported the local problem every year for about 4 years, first via their website, now via Mapshare - no change.

We routinely visit North Dakota (relatives) and New Mexico, so I hope you are right

I like Navigon's pricing. We travel about 10,000 miles a year, usually different places each year, so a new map a year (when it was $50) was easy to justify. Not at $110, though.

FlyGuy said:

That's not a good excuse any more. Memory is cheap, and my TT has NA and Europe and still 200 mbs free. I'd dump Europe for more correct roads in the USA, or buy a SD card.

Click to expand...

Desktop computer memory is rather cheap but TT needs to use Compact Flash in its devices which is much different. They also rely on Samsung's integrated chipsets for its devices which means restrictions. That is quite different from desktop or server computers. Google can use TA maps without too much transformation while TT needs to compress and encrypt the maps to fit the internal memory sizes. The 9x0 models feature both NA and WCE maps because some users travel etensively to both continents and it represents a feature they request.

FlyGuy said:

Local knowledge is always going to be better. I hope IQ routing fixes something that causes bad routing in TT: incorrect speeds for some roads. Locally, there is a 60 mile stretch routed at 40 mph, but it has a 65 speed limit, and everyone drives 70 mph. The 40 mph routing speed means TT uses a route that is 15 miles and about 10 minutes longer and goes over two passes instead of staying on a flatter road. I see the same problem in other states. I've reported the local problem every year for about 4 years, first via their website, now via Mapshare - no change.

We routinely visit North Dakota (relatives) and New Mexico, so I hope you are right

I like Navigon's pricing. We travel about 10,000 miles a year, usually different places each year, so a new map a year (when it was $50) was easy to justify. Not at $110, though.

Click to expand...

I understand you are annoyed by the incorrect speed on some roads leading to doubtful routing recommandations. I'm afraid it will be a long time before we have sufficient data for depandable routing. I see local routing recommandations that are not adequate because it leads me on roads with lots of traffic lights that are nearly always badly synchronized. People choose to use side streets and local residents, on residential streets, pressure the city to change one way streets and/or turn restrictions to prevent heavy traffic at rush hours... The amount of necessary data to get acceptable routing is so huge, I doubt we are likely to witness that before a very long time. I often dream that we could access local data to be able to get something better but when thinking of the amount of data for a whole continent it does not seem feasible given the storage restrictions we face.

Montreal has around 5,000km of streets (roughly 3,000 miles) and that is only one city out of many in NA. TT/TA face a multitude of problems when it comes to provide us with adequate routing/ETA considering the storage restrictions but my gripe is about their marketing vs our expectations. OTOH, I don't see their competitors doing much better. I only hope their update map program follows what their European division does.

Gilbert said:

Desktop computer memory is rather cheap but TT needs to use Compact Flash in its devices which is much different.

Click to expand...

$12 for 4 gb SD card almost anywhere. Memory is NOT a reason anymore. Ditto for having Europe and North America loaded simultaneously in the device: I can't drive from one to the other, so I can easily have one map in device memory, and the other on a $12 SD card in the slot and switch back and forth. The map issues have other reasons, and TT doesn't explain the details.

Gilbert said:

I understand you are annoyed by the incorrect speed on some roads leading to doubtful routing recommandations. I'm afraid it will be a long time before we have sufficient data for depandable routing.

Click to expand...

Fixing the incorrect speed would not even require any more memory; in fact, if TT would just use the speed limit I set into it for the routing speed, it would do the routing properly. This badly wrong routing speed (40 mph instead of 60 mph] has been reported to them numerous times, but they don't fix it. Cities and stoplights are much more complex, and I don't fuss about sub-optimum routes there, as I am just happy to get to where I'm going (I'm a small town guy). But, a routing speed 25 mph below the speed limit on a rural state highway is ridiculous as it is an easy to check, easy to change parameter, so I'm disappointed it continues to be wrong.

And, at $110 for a new map, I may not ever get IQ routing to see if that fixes it. I've sent an email to TT about the map pricing so they know it's cheaper maps or I get a different brand of PND next time I think my current map is too old.

TomTom creates maps modified to fit the unit's internal memory, not what the amount of memory you CAN add. Not everyone will buy an SD card for their device. Not everyone knows what an SD card even is.

Eventually TomTom will be adding more internal memory to their newer devices but unless the maps are getting way too big, I don't see that happening soon. The biggest thing that pisses me of is how the 910 has a huge harddrive vs the 920 which has less than 1/4th of the memory that the 910 had. Let's not even talk about the battery (Another irritating issue for me)

Now what would be nice is if TomTom gave us the choice to purchase whatever version of whatever map, based on the amount of memory we have available on our devices. I own a 720 with 2GB internal memory and 4GB SDHC card. I wish TomTom would allow us to download the full sized 920/930 maps since some of us have the space. Hell, I wish they'd even make a 6GB version of North America that includes as much info as possible, and can only be bought/downloaded/installed if your device has the required space. 8GB card would work great in this situation.

sageuvagony said:

TomTom creates maps modified to fit the unit's internal memory, not what the amount of memory you CAN add. Not everyone will buy an SD card for their device. Not everyone knows what an SD card even is.

Click to expand...

For new units, memory is cheap - $2 a GB when it's built in - so that's not a limit. In the map section, TT says: "Depending on the map you purchase, additional memory (e.g. an empty SD card) might be needed." And When I go to download a map, TT instructions include "Also, make sure your memory card (SD card) has enough space." TT home knows what your unit can hold and if it has card in the slot. TT knows, the customer knows (probably got the 920 to put an SD card with music in it), and TT Home knows all about SD cards, so it's not about the memory. TT has made map choices based on other things, but I don't really know, and they don't tell us.

sageuvagony said:

Now what would be nice is if TomTom gave us the choice to purchase whatever version of whatever map, based on the amount of memory we have available on our devices.

Click to expand...

Yes, or offered a low cost subscription like they do in Europe. I think they are still trying to figure out the best way to make money from their maps, and I hope they find out that $110 for ONE map is a non-starter.